I do NOT owe any debt but have a COMMON FIRST and LAST NAME. My Constitutional rights are violated every time a lawyer fails to perform due diligence, per rule 137, BEFORE SIGNING and FILING COURT PAPER against me. The clerks are helpless, the judges & attorney disciplinary do nothing favoring “lawyer zealousness.” I then have to spend time & money, going to court to prove I am NOT the person who owes the debt. I urge the CFPB to create mechanisms for clerks & citizens that make it 1) easier to fix these messes &, 2) to bring sanctions against lawyers & judges for MISUSE OF LEGAL PROCEDURE, ABUSE OF PROCESS, WRONGFUL CIVIL PROCEEDINGS, & MALICIOUS PROSECUTION.
Current validation guidelines do nothing to prevent wrong people from being dragged into court (common first and last name etc.). Debt validation ought to be a continual process, enacted: 1) any time the debt is sold, transferred, reassigned etc. 2) any time the creditor or its agents "lose track of" the debtor 3) any time new information is found and ASSUMED to be the debtors such as a new address, 4) any time a person presents legitimate ID to the clerk that proves they are not the right person (wrong middle initial, wrong birthdate, wrong race, wrong gender, etc.), 5) at each phase of the court process particularly after time lapse, transfer, reassignment 6) any time the debt records or court files concerning the debt records are destroyed (fire, flood etc.), 7) any time a clerk loses or accidently destroys all the court records, 8) any time a discrepancy is known or should have been known, 9) any time an ambiguity exists or (when viewed by a reasonable person would have been found to have existed) in the identity (i.e. common first and last name without middle initial etc.)
First, I have learned there is a significant legal difference between 1) identify theft, 2) mistaken identity (see contract law) and 3) wrong person (mistake) and their related remedies. Furthermore, that these three words need to be separated, clarified and their legal handling completely examined. There is almost zero legal remedy for wrong person found. More information would NOT have helped. The lawyer had plenty information but he did not validate any of it after he found my address. The clerk told me these lawyers and their agents are "just going through the phone book/internet" hauling people with the same first and last name into court thinking they will eventually find the debtor. A complete waste of court resources, an enormous expense to the innocent citizen, and the unlawful detainment and threatening of an innocent citizen and their assets. The debtor, it has since been discovered has left the county. The lawyer could have easily validated his information using online public property records from both the Clerk of courts and the County Clerk and found out the middle initial was not a match along with over 7 other pieces of identifying information that were not a match. The lawyer did not even do the simplest checking. I filed with the IARDC and nothing happened.
When the wrong person is hauled into court, there is no dispute mechanism except to slog through the court system in front of a judge. I think there should be an efficient / effective way to be able to file a dispute with a NEUTRAL third party at the circuit court level that does not involve appearing before a judge. As it stands now in Illinois, it is the debt collector v. the alleged debtor/ wrong person (pro se) in a he said / she said. The lawyer is privileged and always presumed to be correct and truthful by the judge while the alleged debtor/wrong person is presumed to be lying, and /or trying to get out of something. Judges are not neutral third parties.
More information does not help when lawyers refuse to perform even the most basic due diligence as required before they affix their signature to, and, submit court paper (whichh are legal affidavits) to Clerks. As it stands now, most judges will not hear motions for sanctions under rule 137, and most lawyers will not file motions for sanctions against their colleagues. However, some mechanism has to created to give power back to those wrongly accused of owing debt, such that there are serious consequences for lawyers who recklessly abuse the court process and harm the personal and professional reputations of innocent citizens.
RE CA... how does this help prevent Joe Smith the innocent from being served for Joe Smith the debtor? Perhaps full and complete name, birthdate, race, gender, etc. should be required on every document submitted. Also, any changes of address post-default judgment should require accompanying paperwork that demonstrates that the lawyer/agent actually certified and validated the change to be true with actual automatic sanctions to the lawyer when it is not.
I knew my rights and yet, the debt lawyer stated 1) he did not have to show me the original debt and 2) he could not and would not talk to me because I was pro se.
From_ill_annoy
1
I do NOT owe any debt but have a COMMON FIRST and LAST NAME. My Constitutional rights are violated every time a lawyer fails to perform due diligence, per rule 137, BEFORE SIGNING and FILING COURT PAPER against me. The clerks are helpless, the judges & attorney disciplinary do nothing favoring “lawyer zealousness.” I then have to spend time & money, going to court to prove I am NOT the person who owes the debt. I urge the CFPB to create mechanisms for clerks & citizens that make it 1) easier to fix these messes &, 2) to bring sanctions against lawyers & judges for MISUSE OF LEGAL PROCEDURE, ABUSE OF PROCESS, WRONGFUL CIVIL PROCEEDINGS, & MALICIOUS PROSECUTION.
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
2
Current validation guidelines do nothing to prevent wrong people from being dragged into court (common first and last name etc.). Debt validation ought to be a continual process, enacted: 1) any time the debt is sold, transferred, reassigned etc. 2) any time the creditor or its agents "lose track of" the debtor 3) any time new information is found and ASSUMED to be the debtors such as a new address, 4) any time a person presents legitimate ID to the clerk that proves they are not the right person (wrong middle initial, wrong birthdate, wrong race, wrong gender, etc.), 5) at each phase of the court process particularly after time lapse, transfer, reassignment 6) any time the debt records or court files concerning the debt records are destroyed (fire, flood etc.), 7) any time a clerk loses or accidently destroys all the court records, 8) any time a discrepancy is known or should have been known, 9) any time an ambiguity exists or (when viewed by a reasonable person would have been found to have existed) in the identity (i.e. common first and last name without middle initial etc.)
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
3
First, I have learned there is a significant legal difference between 1) identify theft, 2) mistaken identity (see contract law) and 3) wrong person (mistake) and their related remedies. Furthermore, that these three words need to be separated, clarified and their legal handling completely examined. There is almost zero legal remedy for wrong person found. More information would NOT have helped. The lawyer had plenty information but he did not validate any of it after he found my address. The clerk told me these lawyers and their agents are "just going through the phone book/internet" hauling people with the same first and last name into court thinking they will eventually find the debtor. A complete waste of court resources, an enormous expense to the innocent citizen, and the unlawful detainment and threatening of an innocent citizen and their assets. The debtor, it has since been discovered has left the county. The lawyer could have easily validated his information using online public property records from both the Clerk of courts and the County Clerk and found out the middle initial was not a match along with over 7 other pieces of identifying information that were not a match. The lawyer did not even do the simplest checking. I filed with the IARDC and nothing happened.
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
4
When the wrong person is hauled into court, there is no dispute mechanism except to slog through the court system in front of a judge. I think there should be an efficient / effective way to be able to file a dispute with a NEUTRAL third party at the circuit court level that does not involve appearing before a judge. As it stands now in Illinois, it is the debt collector v. the alleged debtor/ wrong person (pro se) in a he said / she said. The lawyer is privileged and always presumed to be correct and truthful by the judge while the alleged debtor/wrong person is presumed to be lying, and /or trying to get out of something. Judges are not neutral third parties.
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
5
How does this help in any way?
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
6
More information does not help when lawyers refuse to perform even the most basic due diligence as required before they affix their signature to, and, submit court paper (whichh are legal affidavits) to Clerks. As it stands now, most judges will not hear motions for sanctions under rule 137, and most lawyers will not file motions for sanctions against their colleagues. However, some mechanism has to created to give power back to those wrongly accused of owing debt, such that there are serious consequences for lawyers who recklessly abuse the court process and harm the personal and professional reputations of innocent citizens.
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
7
RE CA... how does this help prevent Joe Smith the innocent from being served for Joe Smith the debtor? Perhaps full and complete name, birthdate, race, gender, etc. should be required on every document submitted. Also, any changes of address post-default judgment should require accompanying paperwork that demonstrates that the lawyer/agent actually certified and validated the change to be true with actual automatic sanctions to the lawyer when it is not.
View this comment in the discussion thread
From_ill_annoy
8
I knew my rights and yet, the debt lawyer stated 1) he did not have to show me the original debt and 2) he could not and would not talk to me because I was pro se.
View this comment in the discussion thread