As an identity theft victim, I have had dozens of experiences with debt collectors. I will start with what I consider the worst of the worst. A large portion of my theft was through online payday loan companies. The thief would deposit payday loans of around $1000-$1,500 into bank accounts she had opened online in my name. Collection agencies buy the debts after they have gone unpaid, and I have not had a positive experience with a single agency that is collecting the debt from a payday loan. They do not care what the FDCPA says, and in many cases, don't even know what the FDCPA is! They will call and leave a message. You return the call to the person and that person is never available. He is always "in court". This immediately sends a red flag to me. I know the FDCPA by heart. The fact is, they want to give the consumer the impression that they are suing debtors constantly and will tell you that your case has been referred to "the courthouse" for filing. When prodded, for example, if I ask which courthouse, you can actually hear them typing in the background as they try to google your county court information. Unfortunately, they never get it right. I have been told it was filed in the Dallas, Connecticut court. The identity thief in this instance had used an old address of mine in Texas and the address was somehow merged with my actual Connecticut address. When I prod further, it becomes even more disturbing. They will not give me their actual name. I have actually been told that the person I was speaking to was Bill. Bill Collector. I have been called names that truly brought me to tears. Their is no debt validation with these collectors. I can't even get the actual company name is some cases. They are debts previously owned by Speedy Cash and Check n Go (Check N Go being the absolute worst) or they are hired by Speedy Cash or Check N Go to collect debts on their behalf. The original creditor is no help at all. Submitting a police report and identity theft affidavit does nothing. They do not care about what the laws state they must do when notified by a consumer with proper supporting documents that the consumer is a victim of identity theft. They will ignore it. They ignore everything sent via Certified Mail. They receive it, but they do nothing with it. The consumer is left to complain to the state attorney general or file a lawsuit. How has the theft of my identity become my problem to fix? Law enforcement will not involve themselves in civil disputes regarding debt. All they will do is provide you with a police report. But they will also accuse you of being your own "identity theft." When I filed my report in person, I was taken to a detective who sat with my husband and myself in a small room with nothing but a small table and three chairs. He documented our information and then he attempted to scare us into confessing to attempting to use the police department as a way to escape our financial obligations. His reasoning was that if the account is in my name, has my birthday and SSN linked to it, why in the world would he consider me a victim of identity theft? What proof do I have? That's the million dollar question. How do you prove you didn't open an account online with Speedy Cash or Check N Go? They do not require so much as a bank statement, a photo ID, an employment verification or even proof of residency. They will deposit a payday loan into an account that IS NOT EVEN IN YOUR NAME. I learned through speaking with these banks that some loans deposited into the accounts in my name actually were loans with an entirely different person's name on the EFT transfer. The banks do not have any kind of system in place to reject transactions that do not match the account holder's name. So the bottom line is, I have no actual PROOF. It is very easy to prove that I DID actually apply for and receive these loans. And the easiest route is always the best route when it comes to detectives who are over-worked, short-staffed, and are under pressure by the Chief to get the case out of the office and on to the DA. I finally convinced him to take my complaint and file a report. But it is completely useless to me. I have tried submitting my police report directly to the credit reporting agencies, who are then required by law to block all fraudulent information. However, there is a loophole there, as well. They don't have to accept your report if they have reason to believe that you have made a misleading or false statement. And when I originally disputed these debts as "NOT MINE" instead of "FRAUDULENT", that was proof enough for them to reject my request for blocking. At the time they were reported, I had not been contacted by any creditor or collector, I had not received any notifications in the mail. All I knew is the accounts were "Not Mine". The system is so broken. Punishment for violating the FDCPA is not harsh enough, and it is up to the consumer to go it alone, hire a competent attorney, and go through the entire process for "$1,000 per violation." How do I even prove a violation when I cannot record a call on my end? Is it worth my money? The time it takes is equally unjustifiable. Collection agencies like the ones I have described that collect for payday loans don't care about the law. They don't follow the law, and until the states or US Attorney General fines these payday loan companies or legislation is made that makes it so that payday loan companies cannot report outstanding debt to ANY consumer data provider, they will continue to ruin the lives and credit of identity theft victims. Because they make it so very easy for thieves to commit a crime. In doing so, the only viable solution for punishing these companies and not verifying that the loan information is actually real, by requiring hard documentation or shutting down the online loan altogether, is for them to have the right to collect on these loans taken away. I have learned many valuable lessons and have much more to share regarding other types of accounts, but in this case, I am guilty. I must hire a team of private detectives, computer forensics experts and expert polygraph examiners to prove my innocence. Identity theft victims as a whole will continue to be guilty until proven innocent until we find a better way to manage credit files. The social security number as identifier of your entire credit history needs to be seriously researched. I think you will find that as a means of identifying a person for credit applications and credit reporting, it is archaic. Who knows how many people have access to my SSN? It doesn't even represent who I am. It hasn't for many years.
I think this proposal is completely unfair to the consumer. I am going to give you several scenarios/examples that hopefully convince you that current FCRA regulations have already given collection agencies way too much power over our credit. First, collection agencies are trying (in most cases) to collect on a debt that has already been written off by the creditor. While my state requires that the collection agency must be bonded in Texas, there is very little incentive for collection agencies to play by the rules. They have bought an account for pennies on the dollar. The burden of proof to prove the information contained in the account they purchased. The consumer is instead forced to provide evidence that the debt isn't theirs. How does one do this? How do I prove that the dentist charged me for a procedure I did not request or receive? It is MUCH EASIER for the the debt purchaser to supply the documentation that proves the debt is valid. If their collection is legitimate, their file will contain enough information to prove that the collection is for a specific amount and is unpaid by the consumer in question. They will have cancelled checks in the alleged debtors name, the debtor's signature on the original contract, a payment history from bank accounts in the name of the debtor. They will have x-rays that show Tooth Number XX had a root canal. They will have proof that an inquiry was made on the consumer's credit report on the day the account was open, and they will have an address that was used to send statements, credit cards, communications they initiated.
What does the consumer have? Nothing. It is counterproductive and completely contradictory to suggest a consumer should have a file of information to send to a collection agency proving they didn't open an account or agree to a treatment, considering the consumer did not know the collection even existed until they start receiving phone calls. If a collection agency isn't able to provide the CONSUMER with enough information that proves the account belongs to them, then it is the collection agency's loss, not the consumers. Collection agencies make money collecting money on accounts that have been charged off, meaning the creditor has written it off as a loss. If the collection agency cannot prove with enough evidence to convince a person of average intelligence that an account is correct and that it is the consumer's responsibility to pay the debt, then it should be deleted. There needs to be a "means test" implemented that will outline what criteria must be on file with the collection agency that will prove its validity. This is not simply a name, address and social security number. They must be able to PROVE Consumer A had an account with the original creditor that resulted in a charge off. If they cannot, the collection must be permanently deleted from all consumers credit files. If the law gives the right for a collection agency to purchase a debt for less than the consumer himself would have been allowed to settle with, then the collection agency better keep EXTREMELY accurate filed and enough information to back it up. The consumer shouldn't be required to do anything but demand a copy of the documentation and to initiate the investigation. Nothing else.
As I have had many accounts in collection due to an identity theft, I have several different experiences with the "validation" process. My belief is that there is no rule defining exactly what documentation constitutes validation. As we know, if we dispute with the CRA and ask for a reinvestigation, all that will be done is the social security number will be matched and verified with the amount owed. It is a useless tool and a waste of the consumer's time. Asking for validation with a collection agency is almost as useless. This is because current laws suggest that the collection agency provide the consumer with information "such as" the name and address of the original creditor, and the amount owed. This does not prove a debt is still owed, and to whom it is owed. If we are going to allow companies to buy debts for amounts as low as pennies on the dollar, then the burden of proof MUST lie with the collection agency. As they are in the business of collecting debts, they are given all information regarding payment history, original contracts, methods of prior payment, and all personal information relating to the consumer. For far too long the consumer has been at the mercy of the collection agency. We are forced to send proof of our identity, current mailing address, phone number, etc. as well as all documentation we have regarding the account that would show an error has been made. But why? The collection agency has this information readily available. And if they do not, the account should be permanently deleted. If the collection agency cannot produce documentation from the original creditor including (1)a contract (2)payment history from original creditor if any (3)proper identification of the consumer (4)proof of purchase of the debt (5)proof they are legally able to collect on the debt in the consumer's state-then there should be laws in place that prevent the debt from being reported. In most cases, it is being reported from the original creditor already. And if it isn't, this should be a red flag to CRA's that the debt is not valid. Collection agencies must be able to show proof that a collection notice was sent, and they should be required to provide the same proof a consumer must provide to prove a dispute was sent (CMRR). If it is required of the consumer, it should be required of all. A debt should be considered validated only when all of these conditions have been met. Without these safeguards, a consumer could end up paying a debt they do not owe. It happens all the time. How many stories have you heard of collection agencies voluntarily providing any information to a consumer before demanding money? They don't. Enough is enough. Take the burden of proof off the consumer and place it with the party that legally owns the debt.
erinintexas
1
As an identity theft victim, I have had dozens of experiences with debt collectors. I will start with what I consider the worst of the worst. A large portion of my theft was through online payday loan companies. The thief would deposit payday loans of around $1000-$1,500 into bank accounts she had opened online in my name. Collection agencies buy the debts after they have gone unpaid, and I have not had a positive experience with a single agency that is collecting the debt from a payday loan. They do not care what the FDCPA says, and in many cases, don't even know what the FDCPA is! They will call and leave a message. You return the call to the person and that person is never available. He is always "in court". This immediately sends a red flag to me. I know the FDCPA by heart. The fact is, they want to give the consumer the impression that they are suing debtors constantly and will tell you that your case has been referred to "the courthouse" for filing. When prodded, for example, if I ask which courthouse, you can actually hear them typing in the background as they try to google your county court information. Unfortunately, they never get it right. I have been told it was filed in the Dallas, Connecticut court. The identity thief in this instance had used an old address of mine in Texas and the address was somehow merged with my actual Connecticut address. When I prod further, it becomes even more disturbing. They will not give me their actual name. I have actually been told that the person I was speaking to was Bill. Bill Collector. I have been called names that truly brought me to tears. Their is no debt validation with these collectors. I can't even get the actual company name is some cases. They are debts previously owned by Speedy Cash and Check n Go (Check N Go being the absolute worst) or they are hired by Speedy Cash or Check N Go to collect debts on their behalf. The original creditor is no help at all. Submitting a police report and identity theft affidavit does nothing. They do not care about what the laws state they must do when notified by a consumer with proper supporting documents that the consumer is a victim of identity theft. They will ignore it. They ignore everything sent via Certified Mail. They receive it, but they do nothing with it. The consumer is left to complain to the state attorney general or file a lawsuit. How has the theft of my identity become my problem to fix? Law enforcement will not involve themselves in civil disputes regarding debt. All they will do is provide you with a police report. But they will also accuse you of being your own "identity theft." When I filed my report in person, I was taken to a detective who sat with my husband and myself in a small room with nothing but a small table and three chairs. He documented our information and then he attempted to scare us into confessing to attempting to use the police department as a way to escape our financial obligations. His reasoning was that if the account is in my name, has my birthday and SSN linked to it, why in the world would he consider me a victim of identity theft? What proof do I have? That's the million dollar question. How do you prove you didn't open an account online with Speedy Cash or Check N Go? They do not require so much as a bank statement, a photo ID, an employment verification or even proof of residency. They will deposit a payday loan into an account that IS NOT EVEN IN YOUR NAME. I learned through speaking with these banks that some loans deposited into the accounts in my name actually were loans with an entirely different person's name on the EFT transfer. The banks do not have any kind of system in place to reject transactions that do not match the account holder's name. So the bottom line is, I have no actual PROOF. It is very easy to prove that I DID actually apply for and receive these loans. And the easiest route is always the best route when it comes to detectives who are over-worked, short-staffed, and are under pressure by the Chief to get the case out of the office and on to the DA. I finally convinced him to take my complaint and file a report. But it is completely useless to me. I have tried submitting my police report directly to the credit reporting agencies, who are then required by law to block all fraudulent information. However, there is a loophole there, as well. They don't have to accept your report if they have reason to believe that you have made a misleading or false statement. And when I originally disputed these debts as "NOT MINE" instead of "FRAUDULENT", that was proof enough for them to reject my request for blocking. At the time they were reported, I had not been contacted by any creditor or collector, I had not received any notifications in the mail. All I knew is the accounts were "Not Mine". The system is so broken. Punishment for violating the FDCPA is not harsh enough, and it is up to the consumer to go it alone, hire a competent attorney, and go through the entire process for "$1,000 per violation." How do I even prove a violation when I cannot record a call on my end? Is it worth my money? The time it takes is equally unjustifiable. Collection agencies like the ones I have described that collect for payday loans don't care about the law. They don't follow the law, and until the states or US Attorney General fines these payday loan companies or legislation is made that makes it so that payday loan companies cannot report outstanding debt to ANY consumer data provider, they will continue to ruin the lives and credit of identity theft victims. Because they make it so very easy for thieves to commit a crime. In doing so, the only viable solution for punishing these companies and not verifying that the loan information is actually real, by requiring hard documentation or shutting down the online loan altogether, is for them to have the right to collect on these loans taken away. I have learned many valuable lessons and have much more to share regarding other types of accounts, but in this case, I am guilty. I must hire a team of private detectives, computer forensics experts and expert polygraph examiners to prove my innocence. Identity theft victims as a whole will continue to be guilty until proven innocent until we find a better way to manage credit files. The social security number as identifier of your entire credit history needs to be seriously researched. I think you will find that as a means of identifying a person for credit applications and credit reporting, it is archaic. Who knows how many people have access to my SSN? It doesn't even represent who I am. It hasn't for many years.
View this comment in the discussion thread
erinintexas
2
I think this proposal is completely unfair to the consumer. I am going to give you several scenarios/examples that hopefully convince you that current FCRA regulations have already given collection agencies way too much power over our credit. First, collection agencies are trying (in most cases) to collect on a debt that has already been written off by the creditor. While my state requires that the collection agency must be bonded in Texas, there is very little incentive for collection agencies to play by the rules. They have bought an account for pennies on the dollar. The burden of proof to prove the information contained in the account they purchased. The consumer is instead forced to provide evidence that the debt isn't theirs. How does one do this? How do I prove that the dentist charged me for a procedure I did not request or receive? It is MUCH EASIER for the the debt purchaser to supply the documentation that proves the debt is valid. If their collection is legitimate, their file will contain enough information to prove that the collection is for a specific amount and is unpaid by the consumer in question. They will have cancelled checks in the alleged debtors name, the debtor's signature on the original contract, a payment history from bank accounts in the name of the debtor. They will have x-rays that show Tooth Number XX had a root canal. They will have proof that an inquiry was made on the consumer's credit report on the day the account was open, and they will have an address that was used to send statements, credit cards, communications they initiated. What does the consumer have? Nothing. It is counterproductive and completely contradictory to suggest a consumer should have a file of information to send to a collection agency proving they didn't open an account or agree to a treatment, considering the consumer did not know the collection even existed until they start receiving phone calls. If a collection agency isn't able to provide the CONSUMER with enough information that proves the account belongs to them, then it is the collection agency's loss, not the consumers. Collection agencies make money collecting money on accounts that have been charged off, meaning the creditor has written it off as a loss. If the collection agency cannot prove with enough evidence to convince a person of average intelligence that an account is correct and that it is the consumer's responsibility to pay the debt, then it should be deleted. There needs to be a "means test" implemented that will outline what criteria must be on file with the collection agency that will prove its validity. This is not simply a name, address and social security number. They must be able to PROVE Consumer A had an account with the original creditor that resulted in a charge off. If they cannot, the collection must be permanently deleted from all consumers credit files. If the law gives the right for a collection agency to purchase a debt for less than the consumer himself would have been allowed to settle with, then the collection agency better keep EXTREMELY accurate filed and enough information to back it up. The consumer shouldn't be required to do anything but demand a copy of the documentation and to initiate the investigation. Nothing else.
View this comment in the discussion thread
erinintexas
3
As I have had many accounts in collection due to an identity theft, I have several different experiences with the "validation" process. My belief is that there is no rule defining exactly what documentation constitutes validation. As we know, if we dispute with the CRA and ask for a reinvestigation, all that will be done is the social security number will be matched and verified with the amount owed. It is a useless tool and a waste of the consumer's time. Asking for validation with a collection agency is almost as useless. This is because current laws suggest that the collection agency provide the consumer with information "such as" the name and address of the original creditor, and the amount owed. This does not prove a debt is still owed, and to whom it is owed. If we are going to allow companies to buy debts for amounts as low as pennies on the dollar, then the burden of proof MUST lie with the collection agency. As they are in the business of collecting debts, they are given all information regarding payment history, original contracts, methods of prior payment, and all personal information relating to the consumer. For far too long the consumer has been at the mercy of the collection agency. We are forced to send proof of our identity, current mailing address, phone number, etc. as well as all documentation we have regarding the account that would show an error has been made. But why? The collection agency has this information readily available. And if they do not, the account should be permanently deleted. If the collection agency cannot produce documentation from the original creditor including (1)a contract (2)payment history from original creditor if any (3)proper identification of the consumer (4)proof of purchase of the debt (5)proof they are legally able to collect on the debt in the consumer's state-then there should be laws in place that prevent the debt from being reported. In most cases, it is being reported from the original creditor already. And if it isn't, this should be a red flag to CRA's that the debt is not valid. Collection agencies must be able to show proof that a collection notice was sent, and they should be required to provide the same proof a consumer must provide to prove a dispute was sent (CMRR). If it is required of the consumer, it should be required of all. A debt should be considered validated only when all of these conditions have been met. Without these safeguards, a consumer could end up paying a debt they do not owe. It happens all the time. How many stories have you heard of collection agencies voluntarily providing any information to a consumer before demanding money? They don't. Enough is enough. Take the burden of proof off the consumer and place it with the party that legally owns the debt.
View this comment in the discussion thread