I disagree with the above assessment. As an alleged defaulter I have asked over and over and over again to have the debt set where it was at the time of alleged default and that no more penalties fees or interest rate charges be tacked on, and that I will commit to a monthly autopay. People who INVOLUNTARILY defaulted because of a life changing event in their lives (such as becoming caregivers for their parents) may want to consider all of their defaults together, so if five defaults occurred, the alleged defaulter has to divide whatever money they may be able to apportion every month, by five. Debt collectors refuse to see this as a reasonable solution and only acknowledge their own debt with the alleged defaulter, making it impossible for the alleged defaulter to do the right thing and begin paying back everybody.
I also find the assertion that INVOLUNTARY DEFAULTERS don't put up a legal defense because they are afraid or have a lack of knowledge about the legal system to be outrageous. Strategic Defaulters save part of the money that could have gone to pay down their debts so they can give it to an attorney who may be able to get them a sweet pay off deal. INVOLUNTARY DEFAULTERS keep trying to make their monthly payments until the monthly accrual of interest rate charges and/or a life changing event forces then into an INVOLUNTARY DEFAULT. INVOLUNTARY DEFAULTS are not recognized by the courts. I had a SPOTLESS payment record for 15 years prior to a life changing event that caused me to become an unpaid CareGiver. If I could have been allowed to start with very small monthly payments to all of my creditors in exchange for having my phone lines left alone, I probably could have started making some income again. Instead, the constant debt collection phone calls forced me to convert my land lines to 20 cent a minute cell phones that I could not even afford to answer. I LOST work and contacts because debt collectors would not accept small monthly payments as a beginning pathway towards paying off my alleged debt. Probably the ongoing interest rate charges on default debt makes it unrealistic for debt collectors to accept small payments. Until alleged defaults are truly frozen so that those who want to pay them off have the best chance to do so, more and more debt will accrue.
When you say that you have "exhausted all options", I am curious as to over how long of a period have you attempted to collect when you choose to file a suit? Hardships are not all the same and some hardships can last for a year or longer. As a consumer advocate I see very few creditors that are willing to do anything more than refer to CCC or reduce rates for a short period of time.
That's the price of being in the business. If debt collectors can't hack it in the real world, then they need to find another business industry to be for their "careers."
That is not going to work. The burden of proof in the American Justice System is bore by the one who is making the accusations. Some debtors are going to lie and say that a debt is not theirs when it actually is, but that is the nature of the beast with debt collections. Innocent until proven guilty is the rules of the game. Otherwise I, as a debt collector, can accuse anyone of anything owning any amount and extort money from innocent people. Debt collection is about collecting debt, not about making accusations and extortions.
Being in a court of law and talking to a debt collector on the phone that requires proof that the debt in question is not a valid debt, are two different things. If your intent is to sue, then sue. But requiring proof from anyone you call up and demand that they prove to you (and not a judge) that the debt is not theirs is extortion.
This comment is clearly WRONG. the burden of proof is always on the accuser; Not the accused!
You accuse me -- fine -- YOU PROVE IT!
No -- an Assertion that the debt is mine is NOT PROOF.
But that is exactly what happens when I get phone calls from debt collectors who are seeking out somebody that happens to have my name. The collector can not tell me anything about the debt that they assert is mine until I acknowledge that the debt is mine; which I will not do until they convince me that the debt is mine by supplying PROOF (not assertion).
My particular cause for anger is that someone with my name that lived in a nearby town clearly left some bad debt around -- student loan debt and various credit card debts (some with companies that I have accounts with) -- so now what to the debt collectors do? They start contacting everyone with the same name and start accusing them that the debt is their debt. That's what they did to me -- probably 5-6 different debt collection agencies over the past year -- all looking for the same person -- NOT ME!!
With the tidbits of info that I got from some of the collectors, I located the actual person's former address and some background info -- like his age range (per whitepages.com) -- again, close to my own. Not hard stuff to do, but why do I need to field these calls? And there can be several calls a day -- starting at 8AM on a Saturday!
Then they just piss me off and I get rude and back and forth it goes.
The debt collectors don't do any proper research -- if they did then they would see that I have been at my address for the last 18 years!!
But no -- they just call and call and call.
What is my protection???
NONE!
What is my recourse??
NONE!
Isn't there something about a Right to Privacy somewhere in the BILL OF RIGHTS?
Why do I need to defend myself against a WRONG ASSERTION that the debt is mine?
You THINK its mine -- then you send me a certified letter with the actual proof that it is mine!@
Yes-- the agreement with my signature! with my SS number
with my last known address. That is proof.
What??? -- don't have it -- then do not call me!!
Don't call or bother anyone unless that you have something other than just a common name to go on.
That is just randomly calling people and making accusations.
That is what debt collectors do today -- And it is really annoying!
Oh -- and by the way -- they don't provide anyway for me to call them?? Now why is that!?? Don't you want your debitor to contact you? Isn't that exactly what you want? So why are you hiding??!@?
You just can't go around calling everybody with the same name as your debitor. You need something to collaborate the ID.
do not even think of asking for my info -- my previous addresses, my SS number, etc. JUST FORGET ABOUT THAT!
NOT HAPPENING!
I should have recourse to sue all of you for your false accusations and worse yet -- taking up my time.
Debt Neutrality Petition
1
I disagree with the above assessment. As an alleged defaulter I have asked over and over and over again to have the debt set where it was at the time of alleged default and that no more penalties fees or interest rate charges be tacked on, and that I will commit to a monthly autopay. People who INVOLUNTARILY defaulted because of a life changing event in their lives (such as becoming caregivers for their parents) may want to consider all of their defaults together, so if five defaults occurred, the alleged defaulter has to divide whatever money they may be able to apportion every month, by five. Debt collectors refuse to see this as a reasonable solution and only acknowledge their own debt with the alleged defaulter, making it impossible for the alleged defaulter to do the right thing and begin paying back everybody.
View this comment in the discussion thread
Debt Neutrality Petition
2
I also find the assertion that INVOLUNTARY DEFAULTERS don't put up a legal defense because they are afraid or have a lack of knowledge about the legal system to be outrageous. Strategic Defaulters save part of the money that could have gone to pay down their debts so they can give it to an attorney who may be able to get them a sweet pay off deal. INVOLUNTARY DEFAULTERS keep trying to make their monthly payments until the monthly accrual of interest rate charges and/or a life changing event forces then into an INVOLUNTARY DEFAULT. INVOLUNTARY DEFAULTS are not recognized by the courts. I had a SPOTLESS payment record for 15 years prior to a life changing event that caused me to become an unpaid CareGiver. If I could have been allowed to start with very small monthly payments to all of my creditors in exchange for having my phone lines left alone, I probably could have started making some income again. Instead, the constant debt collection phone calls forced me to convert my land lines to 20 cent a minute cell phones that I could not even afford to answer. I LOST work and contacts because debt collectors would not accept small monthly payments as a beginning pathway towards paying off my alleged debt. Probably the ongoing interest rate charges on default debt makes it unrealistic for debt collectors to accept small payments. Until alleged defaults are truly frozen so that those who want to pay them off have the best chance to do so, more and more debt will accrue.
View this comment in the discussion thread
U.S. Marine
3
When you say that you have "exhausted all options", I am curious as to over how long of a period have you attempted to collect when you choose to file a suit? Hardships are not all the same and some hardships can last for a year or longer. As a consumer advocate I see very few creditors that are willing to do anything more than refer to CCC or reduce rates for a short period of time.
View this comment in the discussion thread
stopwithspoofedcallerID
4
That's the price of being in the business. If debt collectors can't hack it in the real world, then they need to find another business industry to be for their "careers."
View this comment in the discussion thread
stopwithspoofedcallerID
5
That is not going to work. The burden of proof in the American Justice System is bore by the one who is making the accusations. Some debtors are going to lie and say that a debt is not theirs when it actually is, but that is the nature of the beast with debt collections. Innocent until proven guilty is the rules of the game. Otherwise I, as a debt collector, can accuse anyone of anything owning any amount and extort money from innocent people. Debt collection is about collecting debt, not about making accusations and extortions.
View this comment in the discussion thread
stopwithspoofedcallerID
6
Being in a court of law and talking to a debt collector on the phone that requires proof that the debt in question is not a valid debt, are two different things. If your intent is to sue, then sue. But requiring proof from anyone you call up and demand that they prove to you (and not a judge) that the debt is not theirs is extortion.
View this comment in the discussion thread
H
7
This comment is clearly WRONG. the burden of proof is always on the accuser; Not the accused! You accuse me -- fine -- YOU PROVE IT! No -- an Assertion that the debt is mine is NOT PROOF. But that is exactly what happens when I get phone calls from debt collectors who are seeking out somebody that happens to have my name. The collector can not tell me anything about the debt that they assert is mine until I acknowledge that the debt is mine; which I will not do until they convince me that the debt is mine by supplying PROOF (not assertion). My particular cause for anger is that someone with my name that lived in a nearby town clearly left some bad debt around -- student loan debt and various credit card debts (some with companies that I have accounts with) -- so now what to the debt collectors do? They start contacting everyone with the same name and start accusing them that the debt is their debt. That's what they did to me -- probably 5-6 different debt collection agencies over the past year -- all looking for the same person -- NOT ME!! With the tidbits of info that I got from some of the collectors, I located the actual person's former address and some background info -- like his age range (per whitepages.com) -- again, close to my own. Not hard stuff to do, but why do I need to field these calls? And there can be several calls a day -- starting at 8AM on a Saturday! Then they just piss me off and I get rude and back and forth it goes. The debt collectors don't do any proper research -- if they did then they would see that I have been at my address for the last 18 years!! But no -- they just call and call and call. What is my protection??? NONE! What is my recourse?? NONE! Isn't there something about a Right to Privacy somewhere in the BILL OF RIGHTS? Why do I need to defend myself against a WRONG ASSERTION that the debt is mine? You THINK its mine -- then you send me a certified letter with the actual proof that it is mine!@ Yes-- the agreement with my signature! with my SS number with my last known address. That is proof. What??? -- don't have it -- then do not call me!! Don't call or bother anyone unless that you have something other than just a common name to go on. That is just randomly calling people and making accusations. That is what debt collectors do today -- And it is really annoying! Oh -- and by the way -- they don't provide anyway for me to call them?? Now why is that!?? Don't you want your debitor to contact you? Isn't that exactly what you want? So why are you hiding??!@? You just can't go around calling everybody with the same name as your debitor. You need something to collaborate the ID. do not even think of asking for my info -- my previous addresses, my SS number, etc. JUST FORGET ABOUT THAT! NOT HAPPENING! I should have recourse to sue all of you for your false accusations and worse yet -- taking up my time.
View this comment in the discussion thread